Hammer Time: The Van Of Constant Sorrow

"Steven Lang" (StevenLang) 01/03/2015 at 12:28 • Filed to: None

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No, this is not a NASCAR version of a Dodge Caravan.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

This was a repo, and not just any old repo. This van of constant sorrow represented the absolute worst vehicle I had to repossess in all of 2014.

See those stains and those leftover McDonalds boxes? Imagine if each one had a unique smell to them.

Now throw in the fact that the side window wasn't exactly waterproof, and you have what has to be the most putrid smelling vehicle I have experienced since the W presidency.

But even with that horrid smell, and the heavily stained carpet, and the smashed up window, and even with 212,000 miles of part-time drug running on the odometer, this minivan was still a perfectly decent vehicle.

Really.

You just hard to look hard at it, real hard under the hood, to find the virtues. The engine. The transmission. Both were perfect, with the transmission replaced with a factory unit at 130k. The powertrain surprisingly had no leaks and the paint still looked surprisingly nice for all the highway miles.

Are old minivans with cloth interiors and high miles virtually unsellable these days? Mostly, but everything has a price once you get it to be marketable.

And it had one other thing going for it. In the CD player was "O Brother. Where Art Thou?" It was pretty much my only solace for the fact that this van had just been white trashed all to hell.

As I took the van to have the brakes, tires and smashed up window done, I kept listening to that opening refrain to that all too well known song, "I Am A Man Of Constant Sorrow."

I thought about my car business and the fact that even though more than 80% of it now focuses on the wholesale side (selling to other dealers). I still pretty much have every type of retail customer coming through my door.

Those who want a two year old Ford Focus, and those who need a twelve year old anything that will get them reliably from Point A to Point B for $50 a week. They don't discriminate. They see a car they like online, or driving by, and decide to come look at the car.

The cash deals are quick and easy. You get the money, and they get their car along with the title.

It's the finance deals that are sometimes more complicated. Which is why I have always kept my policies very simple from day one. It comes down to three rules.

1) If you can't pay me, at least tell me the truth.

2) If you can't tell me the truth, at least return my call.

3) And if you can't return my calls after an extended period of time, I'm going to take back my property.

And it is my property. If I'm going to be self-financing a vehicle, I have to make sure that what I sell will last for the full-term of the loan, usually two years, and that the person I'm selling it to will be able and willing to pay me.

Repairs, I take care of and put at the back of loan at my cost at no interest. Typically my cost is about 50% to 70% less than the public cost, and this enables my customers to keep paying the $50 a week without falling behind or having a repair put them in the hole. Over the last six years, my average cost for repairs per vehicle is just over $100.

Brakes, hoses, seals, and other wear items don't usually cost nearly as much when it comes to parts costs, and I also charge $20 for oil changes so I can catch little problems before they become big. Labor is about $30 to $35 an hour for me if I have to farm it out, and about half that if I do it in-house. I do provide free loaners, and I have a bank that handles all the payments so that I can stay busy and mobile with buying cars at auctions and other deals.

At 160,000 miles this minivan was still financeable. But at 200k+ miles, it's a cash deal car. Once I got it detailed harder than Cher's plastic surgery and replaced the tires, front brakes, and window, it sold within a week for $1800.

Was it worth the hassle? Well, it took $600 to make an extra $1300, so it was worth it in the end. But about once a month I get a repo that looks about as wore out as an old mop.

So what about you? Have you ever known someone who was the Jack Kevorkian of cars? Or a car that was a rolling Jack Kevorkian?

Alex B > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 12:41

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In my opinion, these are some of the worst cars ever made.

Steven Lang > Alex B 01/03/2015 at 12:52

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3.3 Liter with a short wheelbase is usually a fairly reliable combination. You have to watch out for the power steering pump and the evap core will need to be replaced at around the 10 year mark. But I see plenty of Caravans with over 200k at the auctions.

TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 12:54

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I think my $400 SHO counts. We didnt find out it didnt have brakes until it got backed into the previous owners garage door. And the interior smelled funny because of a lake in the spare tire well.

Steven Lang > TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts 01/03/2015 at 13:00

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I like the two-tone!

Detroit 9000 > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 13:01

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Old minivans have taken over as the hillbilly vehicles of choice that you need to watch out for on the road. The late 1970s/1980s Caprices must have finally worn out.

fhrblig > Alex B 01/03/2015 at 13:03

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Actually, they weren't that bad. I had a SWB 4-banger, and it did have transmission issues. They were due to the previous owner not getting the transmission serviced when they were supposed to. If I could have afforded to swap a new transmission into it, I'd probably still be driving it (to the horror of my partner).

Steven Lang > Detroit 9000 01/03/2015 at 13:03

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Few things in my business depreciate faster than a bare-bones domestic minivan.

Zoom > Alex B 01/03/2015 at 13:05

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How so?

I've owned many, two currently of this body. They are stone cold reliable, with my 02 T+C still spinning the original water pump at 185,000 miles.

The '94 Grand ES I just sold booked on Kelly at $3600 at 180000 miles. More than any other minivan near that year.

Do explain.

TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 13:07

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the old trunk lid was so rusty, that when I discovered the trunk release was broken, I just yanked on the edge of the lid and the whole lock cylinder popped right out.

Ive been called many unflattering names for buying this car. Want to see why the brakes didnt work?

curbwatching > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 13:07

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1) If you can't pay me, at least tell me the truth.

2) If you can't tell me the truth, at least return my call.

3) And if you can't return my calls after an extended period of time, I'm going to take back my property.

What happens to people that do #1 or #2?

Zoom > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 13:13

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Good read, sir. The minivan is currently the redheaded stepchild simply by proxy. It's a very useful convenient comfortable fly under the radar dumping ground for everyday life.

My wife halls the kids around and hers regularly smells like the dog and fast food.

I learned to take the usefulness for granted.

Oh. I forgot. Another shining example? The last gen Impala or Malibu. Now theres a gem of a wholesaler.

jkm7680 > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 13:15

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Gross, How was the stench after the detail?

gkwilly > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 13:18

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At times in my life when looking for really cheap transport, I'd look for a car with badly faded paint. Nothing reduces the price more with no effect on functionality than bad paint.

I'm far out of the bad paint stage, but (despite a decent job and good credit rating) I still drive old, well maintained cars. My 25 year old Wrangler cost me $2700 eight years ago.

Ad_absurdum_per_aspera > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 13:21

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Garbage bag — they were at least trying, albeit cluelessly and with not very good aim.

The stuff scattered near the door looks (thank God) too fluffy and amorphous to be rat droppings. What was it — chewin' tobacco? Stuff related to the broken window?

I'd imagine you encounter some rather poignant stories or at least the remaining evidence of them — do you get cars that plainly someone has been living in?

Though never any closer to a repo than the occasional 4 a.m. diesel alarm clock as somebody's car got reaped in the near neighborhood, I've always found something rather sad and evocative about junkyard cars with heaps of clothing in them, and small personal effects not worth removing from the car. It's easy to imagine either a hopeful or a desperate cross-country move ending halfway to the intended destination with a nightmarish pounding from under the hood as an engine comes apart inside, or perhaps a shriek of brakes and rubber just before a crash...

Our cars really are tied together with the rest of our lives, and these lives have low spots and not always feel-good Hollywood endings; often they tell the story or at least help you imagine one.

nuke-guy > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 13:26

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A person I use to know unfortunately bought a Toyota Sequoia the first year it came out. It was fully loaded with ever option available (and it might of had working air bags as well).

I was offered a ride home from work one day by him. I worked in an engine room on an aircraft carrier, so I had the JP-5 and lube oil smells all over me. The odor that was in this....thing, and the cause of it was the worst smell ever.

He smoked in it, and there was a layer of nicotine on any surface in it because he always left the windows up trying to be all Chech-n-Chong like. The mildew that infected the vehicle was from the sunroof that leaked so bad it drained into the passenger compartment. Come to find out that he never took it into the dealership to get it fixed under warranty because he hadn't made a single payment on it. His kid barfed in the back seat, must of been from the smell of the dog urine and poo that he never cleaned up.

He drove it like he was always in a race and it didn't stop worth a damn because he smoked the pads and rotors on it (a brake job on those at the time was expensive). We got off the interstate and there was the most horrible sounds coming from the transfer case and transmission because they didn't have any fluid in them.

Of any vehicle on this planet that had an owner that needed something bad to happen to him because of how he treated this thing, he would be on that list.

Chris Furlough > Alex B 01/03/2015 at 13:31

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I had an '84 that ATE water pumps. Also, throw in that it seemed to have a taste for front hubs. (They used the K-Car parts on the much heavier Caravan). They came a long way later.

McMike > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 13:32

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So what about you? Have you ever known someone who was the Jack Kevorkian of cars? Or a car that was a rolling Jack Kevorkian?

I call these types of people, the "last owner " of the car. These people consist of:

My brother-in-law

Two of my neighbors

It's due to three traits.

They're cheap and buy high-mileage cars

They're cheap, and don't do any maintenance

They're sloppy, and neglect the interior, as well.

To these folks, cars are evil. They are appliances, and nothing more.

My brother-in-law killed a 100K Civic by running it out of oil.

One of my neighbors has only sold one or two cars in his life. He lists them for $2000 if they are still running, (usually accepting the low-ball offer he gets) and all the rest of them are picked up by junkyards for $6-700.

The other neighbor will drive them into the ground, trade them in if they still run, or list it as a parts car.

TwoToneLoser > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 13:33

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A question, (longtime listener of yours from the golden days of ttac) I have always kinda liked their basic usefulness coupled with the "don't give a shit about it" pretense that the caravan emits. You have some time with them, so be honest, just how bad are those transmissions?

ACan the factory sins be corrected? After a rebuild, can they approach the reliability of a 4L60E, let say? The Hyromatics and early torqueflites have spoiled me.

They come up cheap here(Marietta, woot.) all the time, but I've been too scared to get one because of that.

Maxxuman > TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts 01/03/2015 at 13:38

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Now that's what I call a break disc!

Frankenbike666 > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 13:43

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That is one crazy business model you have there. Sounds like a good setup to a situation comedy.

DonKeybals > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 13:48

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The airport taxi fleet loves these vehicles. Picks five people up comfortably, along with American-sized luggage, which is just shy of a china hutch and a baby grand piano, per passenger.

dimag05 > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 14:07

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... that all too well known song, "I Am A Van Of Constant Sorrow."

Fixed that for you.

QCGoose > TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts 01/03/2015 at 14:17

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Holy hell! Never seen that before.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 14:23

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Man I forgot how much it sucks to have bad credit. $50 a week for a "12 year old running anything" just blows my mind. I'm basically living paycheck to paycheck scraping by, but by paying all the bills each month and keeping the credit score high what you can get for the same payment is worlds different. I'm currently 90% through a 5 year note for $210 a month which is basically $50 a week for a mid-size crossover that was 4 years old and had 50k when I purchased it. Still had 1 year/10k on the original warranty so I had a year to save for any big repairs. Now at 106k with only oil changes, tires, and a front hub so the savings compound by not needing to put much into it.

Cajun Ginger > TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts 01/03/2015 at 14:29

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Those breaks remind me of what one of my kids did to her car. :/ needed new rotors and calipers. I'm amazed she was able to stop at all. Her: "it stopped squeaking so I thought it was fine. But then it didn't stop very well" She had two rotors left. Barely.

Ad_absurdum_per_aspera > McMike 01/03/2015 at 14:36

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I've been the probably-next-to-last owner of a number of cars, and the last owner of a few.

My strategy has been to lurk and pounce when a friend or neighbor is letting go of a known-good used car, then get the second hundred thousand miles out of it. By the end of that, they don't always look like creampuffs. But I do keep up with (maybe even overkill) both preventive maintenance and needed repairs... and I certainly don't airmail half-consumed McDonald's bags into the cargo area.

Whether the probably-last owner does that, I usually don't know. One exception: the best of the cars I've turned loose of went to a young friend of the family; I still see it around from time to time, and (as I'd guessed from my acquaintance with the owner) it seems reassuringly neat and in good repair.

TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts > Cajun Ginger 01/03/2015 at 14:39

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Oh dear god. To be fair this car was an autocross mule in a past life, and then it sat for six years.

thebigbossyboss > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 14:48

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Wow. It always amazes me how some people keep their cars. My car isn't A1 but how hard is it to take out the garbage?

Tohru > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 14:52

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Those Caravans were a common sight at the salvage yard. Even a small impact at the left front corner (like, say, a deer hit) is usually enough to short out the main wiring harness and render it undriveable.

We did some repo work at the salvage yard, because we had a 14' rollback with a winch on it.

One time many moons ago, we repo'd a '00 Ranger XLT 2WD extended cab. The customer had let the insurance lapse and then rolled it three times while drunk. It still ran and drove, but there wasn't a spot of sheetmetal the size of your hand that wasn't scratched, dented, or bent. They still owed several grand on it and couldn't afford to fix it. So they drove it into a swamp behind their house until it wouldn't move and quit making the payments. After 3 months, the dealer contacted us at the salvage yard to do the repo job for them. 3 months, buried in a swamp. Keep this in mind.

Dad goes out there with a county sheriff to serve the paperwork and repossess the truck for the dealership. The customer starts with "YOU AIN'T TAKIN' MY FUCKIN' TRUCK" but then shuts the hell up when they notice the sheriff standing there. The customer then said, "Fuck you, if you can get it out then you can take the fucker. See if I care."

It almost didn't come out. The rollback was a 1980 F350 stretched chassis-cab 2WD with the diesel. Even with the load bar dug into the ground, it was still dragging the rollback instead of the truck. Dad had to drag the Ranger out with the rollback, then winch it up onto the flatbed.

When he got back to the yard with it, I could smell it coming. When he pulled in, he had a corpse on the back. The swamp killed the truck. The tires were junk, the rims were corroded and black, and the cab was rusting. When we got the door open, the interior was ruined and there was mold and fungus growing on the carpet and seats (when he rolled it all the glass shattered and the rain and the wet came in).

Then Dad tells me he's going to put a battery in it off the used rack, and I gotta climb in this thing to try and start it. It was the first time I told my dad to go fuck himself, though he eventually bribed me with a steak dinner to do it. I grabbed the rain jacket (with hood), rain coveralls, and one of the heavy-duty respirators from the paint shop, and climbed in. The respirator didn't do shit, I could still smell rotten death. The headliner was falling down, there was water in the cluster, there was a tree frog chilling on the inside of the windshield - this truck was fuckin' dead. We had to check it, though.

Dad got the battery connected - he said the hood was rusting too and that the engine bay was an eldrich horror - and gave me the thumbs' up. Go to hit the key - nothing, cylinder's jammed. Get a hammer and WD-40. Bust off the covers on the column, spray everything down with the '40, wait a couple minutes, wiggle the key. It moves! Will it turn over? Well, no time like the present to find out.

Rrrruuurrrrr. Rrrruuurrrrr. Rrrruuu-SCREEEECH!

The motor locked solid.

The Ranger was scrapped.

Cajun Ginger > TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts 01/03/2015 at 14:56

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she was 19 or 20 at the time. We bought her the parts and did the labor then she paid us back for parts. 4 rotors, 2 calipers, all new pads, fluid etc. she's lucky we're good with cars. Don't even want to think about how much a shop would have charged her.

TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts > Cajun Ginger 01/03/2015 at 14:59

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Yeah, theres ne brake line i cant make on the taurus, and i have to get a shop to do it. Dont really want to think how much it will be.

Dusty Ventures > Zoom 01/03/2015 at 15:07

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We've had three, none were what I'd call "reliable." Our '96 had electrical issues for about a year, which sometimes meant the van wouldn't start, and, worse, occasionally caused it to randomly shut off (and not restart) while we were driving it. Left lane of the Jersey turnpike. Nuff said. Our '99 had the transmission absolutely grenade, putting a softball-size hole through the bell housing (photo coming). And our '04 had the computer fry itself in Alabama during a road trip in 2007 (we live in Massachusetts), the engine completely eat itself in 2009, and earlier this year the replacement engine had a gasket failure resulting in cohabitation of coolant and oil in the oil pan.

Now we have a fourth, a 2012 Town And Country that the previous owner already put 95k miles on...

gkwilly > McMike 01/03/2015 at 15:08

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Actually I was intentionally the last owner of several cars. Bought them for about 500-800 drove them with reasonable care until something too expensive to be worth it happened (typically 1-2 years) then junked them. Lot less trouble than trying to convince someone to buy it.

Dusty Ventures > Tohru 01/03/2015 at 15:11

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Left front? We had an impact to the right front fender of ours (someone in a red Montana backed into it in a parking lot and drove off). We lost the daytime running lights, the windshield washer, and the right front turn signal (no damage to the bulb or lens, it just stopped working).

Frenchlicker > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 15:19

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Worse than the old Tauruses?

Frenchlicker > Zoom 01/03/2015 at 15:19

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Dogs and fast food, terrible smell but super inconvenient to get rid of. It's actually the reason I am getting a second car. I want one to abuse and one to pamper.

Wave Motion Gun > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 15:22

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Another excellent read, Mr. Lang! I always enjoy your articles because it brings me a sense of nostalgia. I used to be in the business in your area and we probably ran in the same circles for a while. My family owned several Maaco franchises from Lawrenceville through Athens and we had quite the relationship with almost every tote note and wholesaler in an area that ranged from the Bishop Brothers to every lot down 78 through Loganville and in between. If there was a scuff and shoot to be done between 1993 and 2000 in the area, we probably did it. Made a lot of friends and a few enemies in those days. The stories I have from Paul Brown in Athens alone would fill quite a few nights at the bar. Just dropping a note to say thanks for the great writing and a trip down memory lane, keep it up!

Rob > Dusty Ventures 01/03/2015 at 15:29

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Left front because battery.

Steven Lang > Wave Motion Gun 01/03/2015 at 15:39

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Thank you so much. I live near Marietta. So if you want to meet up sometime, feel free to contact me via Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/steven.lang.92…

Steven Lang > TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts 01/03/2015 at 15:41

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You're a good soul for trying to bring back that Taurus from the dead.

Also, brake lines aren't as pricey as you would expect.

Devon lost his burner, understands electric cars don't require front grilles > Dusty Ventures 01/03/2015 at 15:44

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Out of curiosity, why do you keep getting them?

Steven Lang > Tohru 01/03/2015 at 15:45

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Wow! That was a fantastic story!

I never got one from the swamp. But I did have a few former customers who belonged there.

Steven Lang > Frenchlicker 01/03/2015 at 15:47

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Yeah, worse than Tauruses. At least when it comes to financing. You can always put someone in an 07 or older Taurus for $700 down. The Vulcan engine with the AX4N is a pretty good combination.

However most folks simply don't want a minivan. They don't want seven seats if they only need four or fewer. Plus minivans that are not the Toyota/Honda variety have very low demand. Even in the cash side of the market.

TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 15:49

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Thanks man. She runs good, brakes and three rust holes fixed, and that Turd is hitting the streets. I love me a manual five speed four door with a V6 that can rev to 10000 rpm. I am the SHO man.

1111111111111111111111 > Alex B 01/03/2015 at 15:49

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Awesome cars. Road trips with some buddies, pack whatever, sleep in the back. Climbing trips, fishing, whatever. And you can still get plywood inside.

Steven Lang > McMike 01/03/2015 at 15:49

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I have a family member who is like that. It always pains me to see him pull off a Kevorkian with a ride that used to cost over $20,000.

Steven Lang > Ad_absurdum_per_aspera 01/03/2015 at 15:50

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Thanks. You just gave me an idea for a new article.

Steven Lang > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 15:50

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Completely gone. I use professionals and they do a fantastic job.

S11Steve > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 15:53

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I've worked in vehicle rental for many years, and repo'd all sorts of stuff for non-payment. Most go without fuss - just take the spare keys to the address in the middle of the night and drive away to a locked compound, clean out any possessions and send it back out on rent.

Two were slightly different however. We supplied a van to an accident management company who passed it on to a guy who had his van stolen. When the insurance paid out on his, he had to return ours within 48 hours. 8 days later he obviously preferred ours to anything he could buy with the payout, so I went for a 2am snatchback. It went without fuss, but when I got it back to the compound and checked it for possessions, I found a coffin. With a lid, brass inscriptions, the lot - ready to go... At this point I wasn't sure of what the driver actually did for a living, but I had the awkward situation of not knowing if the coffin was occupied or not. I poked it with a stick to try to judge the weight, but it didn't move at all. I took an extra strong brave pill and decided to try the lid, and thankfully it was sans corpse. The paperwork I found in the van suggested the guy was a joiner who worked for a local undertakers - they came straight away (at about 3.30am) as the coffin was needed for an 11am burial the following morning.

I also had to repo an 8 axle tipper grab wagon from a small civil engineering company that went bust. Again, 3am in the compound I go through the cab, and check over the hydraulics. Grab went up and down, left and right, open and.... bang! Something fell out of the clamshell grab and clattered down the other side of the truck. Thinking the worst, I killed the power and went to look at what had happened.

On the floor, next to the truck was the head of a Gatso speed camera, now in dozens of pieces, with various bits of radar, lens wires and circuit boards coming out of it. There was also a huge roll of what looked like regular 35mm film - this was around 2000-2001, so pre-digital cameras. The whole lot went to landfill and to the residents of Barnsley, Yorkshire, I was your get-out-of-jail-free card!

I've also been shot at whilst doing a repo, but looking at the dings in the back door of the van, it looked like it was nothing more than a small bore air rifle, thankfully!

ranwhenparked > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 15:55

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Even as a kid growing up in the '90s, I used to get grossed out by just how many of my friends' parents' minivans looked and smelled like that inside. My parents are not car people by any means and have never pampered their cars, but they at least never let them turn into rolling Dumpsters, or maybe that should be TrashCo Waste Disposal Units, since Dumpsters are actually pretty high class.

It doesn't have anything to do with the age of the van or how much it cost, a lot of them wind up looking like that when they're still nearly brand-new.

Tohru > Dusty Ventures 01/03/2015 at 15:56

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Left front because battery, main wiring harness, and main fuse panel. Some of them stuck the computer up there too.

Steven Lang > S11Steve 01/03/2015 at 15:57

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I haven't been shot or stabbed yet. But I have definitely seen my share of crazies, and then some.

Steven Lang > ranwhenparked 01/03/2015 at 16:02

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One of the yardsticks I always use when financing folks is looking at the interior condition of their car.

If it's trashed I know what's coming... and going...

McMike > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 16:06

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The BIL ended up buying a XTerra with 130K on it. When I saw it, it's missing part of the rood rack, the first aid kit, and the TPMS light was on.

I'm glad he's buying cheap stuff.

/don'tcareanymore

Whitesmoke > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 16:07

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Ahhh...Georgia folks. I live in Dahlonega.

Ad_absurdum_per_aspera > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 16:20

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Looking forward to it!

albo > Alex B 01/03/2015 at 16:20

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2001 Caravan with 202K on it right now,and it runs as well as the day I bought it, except the front window regulators gunked up and don't go up or down.

3.3 liter engine is an ancient pushrod, but it's strong and proud like your grandpa who fought the commies in Korea. I took the oil pan off last year and there wasn't a touch of metal shavings to clean up.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 16:54

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Except for that smashed window, that van had everything going for it compared to my old one (above). A CD player? Air conditioning? Power mirrors? I bet that thing even had power windows! A little cleanup and it was sellable - mine was only destined for scrapping or as a LeMons project. It wasn't remotely pleasant to drive, but as a daily driver it did fine. Sometimes we need to swallow our pride and do what needs to be done until circumstances improve.

I sold that PoS, got a better job, and now zip around in a Mazda5 6MT, proof that minivans don't need to be dull and uninspiring.

Steven Lang > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 01/03/2015 at 16:58

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Excellent choice! One of my favorite vehicles to recommend.

Squid > Dusty Ventures 01/03/2015 at 16:59

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I know that being a co-driver means you are a glutton for automotive pain, but if the chrysler vans keep on causing you so many head aches, why keep on replacing them with other chrysler vans? Are you just trying to get one to hold together so you can do an SRT-4 motor and tranny swap?

I had a 96 grand voyager that I really loved, but the tranny did go out on me and the back head gasket went out because I didn't check the work that I let a co worker do to the van. But aside from that the thing was fucking awesome. I got about 25-30 MPG out of that V6 and since I just had pillows and blankets in back it was always light. Best urban off-roading non truck vehicle I have had so far. I kinda miss the acid van with its shitty paint and all.

Frenchlicker > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 17:08

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I still find it odd that Caravans and Tauruses are some of the most stolen cars in Detroit. Is it because nobody really wants them and thieves know nobody will look for them?

Zoom > Dusty Ventures 01/03/2015 at 17:08

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Headgasket issues were the responsibility of Mitsubishi Motors Corp and their wonderful oil and coolant leaking 3 liter. The 3.3 and 3.8 Chrysler Corporate engines rarely had any problems.

And name me a minivan manufacturer that has not had a history of transmission issues.

Zoom > Frenchlicker 01/03/2015 at 17:11

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I have my high mileage super clean highway cruiser, and my wife's to trash.

And a third, (an '89 turbo with a little extra boost) for a winter car in the salt belt.

Ad_absurdum_per_aspera > McMike 01/03/2015 at 17:34

0

To these folks, cars {...} are appliances, and nothing more {...} killed a 100K Civic by running it out of oil.

I've known people like that too, and it reflects an entire mindset I just don't get.

"Appliance" is not a dirty word to me. It isn't as though I'm really into appliances, but I recognize that they will do a better job, and my hard-earned money will go further, if I take care of them. And even if you think of a car as a mere appliance, it is a very expensive one whose failure can leave you in a bad situation.

Blowing up a nice car that should easily give several years more of good service by failing to do something so basic as checking the oil.. that's more than just disrespectful to the whole idea of Machine, it is a remarkable act of financial self-mutilation.

But I'm preaching to the choir, and the sinners aren't in church...

Brickman > Alex B 01/03/2015 at 17:36

2

The 3.0 liter Mitsubishi V6 and 31th transmission are crap, but it's a well engineered egg mobile. Can haul as much as a full size pickup, sorta good economy, comfy, hardly any blind spots, smooth as butter steering and shifting. Nope not the worst if you don't treat it like a 3 year old.

Brickman > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 17:36

4

Because race van :P

Frenchlicker > Zoom 01/03/2015 at 17:43

1

Haha, I don't have a wife's car. With my ex hers was our highway cruiser. My Taurus is both the car to trash and for the winter here in Southern Indiana.

Ben Burkhardt > Brickman 01/03/2015 at 19:15

1

NASCAR!

Danny Weinstein > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 19:22

0

As much as I hate doing this, I must concur with the other commentators that this is indeed a "pretty good" car by some standards. Despite my consistent opposition, my parents have insisted on purchasing a used Grand Caravan / Town and Country every two years or so to replace their old one. This isn't cause they're unreliable but rather because my dad does not believe in keeping a car past 100,000 miles. Were on van number 8 now and it is our second new body style one, (2008 Town and Country), and so far it seems to be as reliable as the older 3.3 ones were. Only thing is, as mentioned by a few individuals here, power steering can be a problem (we fixed this free by cleaning our filter) and the window openers. When my dad sold his 98 Caravan it had 230,000 miles on the odo, which actually is considerably higher because his odo didn't work for two years. I must say, however, that they are the most dull and boring vehicles on the road. That 3.3 accelerates as quickly as a Hasidic Jew with a limp. (nothing against jews, I am one myself).

Dusty Ventures > Squid 01/03/2015 at 19:36

4

Mostly because of overlapping ownership. We bought the second one (the '04) while we still had the first one (the '99), though after the transmission failure (nov/dec 2005), which we dismissed as a fluke in a van that was already around 130-150k. The third van (the '96) was a gift to my mom from her brother in 2007(?), who no longer had kids to deal with and was moving down south to retirementland. The '99 came off the road in 2007-2008 after an accident wrecked the door and we decided not to bother fixing it. The '96 started having it's electrical problems at the end of '09. They disappeared in spring 2010, we forgot about them, until they returned even worse in November 2010. So we replaced it with a Subaru Outback.

The '04, which was the funeral home van, had it's gasket issues mid/late '14. We started shopping Siennas (because we didn't want to risk buying another time bomb), and let dad's usual "vehicle acquisition expert" (also the man who supplies us with rental limos) know the Sienna was top of our list in the search for a new van. One day in November said gentleman arrives at the funeral home with the 2012 T&C on a trailer. Dad's tired of being without a van and doesn't want to offend our source of limos, so he agrees to buy it. And that's how we ended up with a fourth Chrysler van.

Dusty Ventures > Zoom 01/03/2015 at 19:40

1

Don't get me wrong, I liked them all. For the most part they were awesome vans. They were comfortable, pleasant, and not afraid to get dirty or do a little hard work. They just had a tendency for surprise large-scale mechanical failures.

Russell Bluewolf > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 19:42

0

parents had an 1989 Chevy Astrovan that we put 2 engines, numerous cylinder heads on (it ate drivers side cylinder heads and gaskets like crazy) and i think 3 transmissions before step dad t-boned a deer on a back country road...pushed the grille into the radiator which hit the cooling fan and blew out the rear tires when he ran over the deer...we put it in the yard with a 500 dollar for sale sign on it..some Hispanic guy bought it, fixed it up and STILL drives it around....if i ever get another Chevy, im buying an Astrovan...thing was like a TANK

Kinja'd Again > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 19:46

0

I only like these kinds of vans because there is so much room for sex.

Brickman > Ben Burkhardt 01/03/2015 at 19:52

3

NASVAN :D

Ben Burkhardt > Brickman 01/03/2015 at 20:00

2

redneck transportation

Devon lost his burner, understands electric cars don't require front grilles > Zoom 01/03/2015 at 20:16

1

Toyota?

Southwest Nomad > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 20:27

0

Mother in law used to have one of these, a late 90s almost 2000 Town & Country variant. It was purple and pretty reliable until about 140k miles before various odd gremlins started occurring on a frequent basis. I'd wager it was about every other week something was needing to be fixed. She finally traded it in for an '11 Impala with pretty low miles and an extended warranty that hasn't missed a beat yet.

Zoom > Devon lost his burner, understands electric cars don't require front grilles 01/03/2015 at 20:41

0

You'd rather a sludged up $6000 aluminum V-6?

Be my guest.

nitroraptor2 > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 20:41

0

i dont care how bad this smelled it will never match up to the smell of my mothers ford windstar we made the ham for Christmas dinner at my grandmothers and my father decided to transport it in the pan it was cooked in juices and all it ended up splashing ham juices all over the floor from the trunk all the way to the driver seat and we didnt notice it until later cause it was dark skip forward a few months until the first few hot days of summer we were at the mall and the van sat in the sun for a bit and as we were walking back towards it in the parking lot the smell of death and rot hit from about 10 parking spots away we tried cleaning it and the moment the soap hit that carpet you could see fat rise to the surface but no matter how well you cleaned that smell never went away

Zoom > Dusty Ventures 01/03/2015 at 20:54

4

Except for the trans, that's actually a bit strange. The corporate 3.3/3.8 was right up there with GMs 3.4/3.5/3.8 in longevity, without the constant intake gasket failures.

Sure the transmissions weren't bullit proof, neither were Honda's. People (and their kids) use and abuse the family minivan worse than a rent(ed mule). And the tranny is the first to show it.

I actually worked for a vehicle donation program in my city (Mel Trotter Ministries) where we retialed/wholesaled 100-150 cars per month. The number one domestic we retailed was Chrysler's minivan. Number two was the Bonneville/Grand Prix body. The key with the Caravan/Twon and Country? Door handles, door latches, window mechanicals, suspension systems, steering parts were pretty durable. We had many latino customers drive up from Mexico, didn't car how many miles were on them, because they knew if they had to throw an engine or tranny at them that was the easy part. If the rest of the car was falling apart, no engine or trans plug and play was going to fix that. They mentioned most Chryco's in Mexico had hundreds of thousands of miles on them. Many engines and tranny were interchangeable, and the rest lasted forever. No rust worries south of the salt belt.

Oh, and I watched in horror as they towed some away on a hitch ball drilled through aluminum bumpers......no kidding.

Dusty Ventures > Zoom 01/03/2015 at 21:01

1

I dunno, maybe we just had bad luck. We do live in road salt turf, so there were many winters of cold and corrosion to deal with, and the '04 had a front end collision a couple years before the engine failure, so who knows if somehow those two are related.

Delta88 > TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts 01/03/2015 at 21:01

0

Try hitting it with some WD-40??

Chuckanut > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 21:08

0

I used to buy cars at our local abandoned vehicle auction to fix and sell, and one time I got a nice Toyota wagon with one small issue - there had to have been 5 pounds of rancid, moldy french fries under the front seats. It was a disgusting, greasy mess that required tearing the interior out, new seats and carpets, and steam cleaning to get all the grease out. I'm guessing the owner always got the king size meal at the drive through and either had an eating problem (like missing his mouth) or just dumped the fries under the seat. Turned out to be a great car and I made some good money but I'll never forget that mess. To this day if I drop a fry, I make sure to get it as soon as possible.

MrDakka > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 21:27

2

Just in case the window rips.

Steven Lang > TwoToneLoser 01/03/2015 at 21:51

0

even the worst transmissiond of the last 20 years can last well over 150k with an annual drain and fill along with a tranny cooler.

My advice depends on your DIY capabilities. I'm a big fan of doing a drain and fill along with a Mityvac that has a manual pump every 2 years or 30k. But I tend to overdue things if I know a component that uses fluids has a fragile history.

If it were my vehicle for keeps, I would probably do that along with the brake and power steering fluids. In my book it's cheap insurance if you have a keeper mentality.

The Chrysler trannies are better than the Windstars and Odysseys, but not as good as the Siennas and GM vehicles.

BTW, I live in the next town over. All the best!

SchwarzeEwigkt > Alex B 01/03/2015 at 22:17

0

I had an '02 Grand Caravan SE with the 3.3L. Took it out back and shot it at 198k because the power steering pump went, one or the other head gasket was going, probably needed a water pump and it was working on eating a wheel bearing. It always started and always got me to where I was going. It wasn't pretty, fast or terribly interesting. I'd characterize it like the trusty old family dog. "We're going to go for a ride? ohboyohboyohboy!" Only broke down properly a couple times because Chrysler makes crappy throttle bodies and high pressure power steering lines. I'd hardly call it badly made. It's actually pretty good for a minivan of that era.

16volt > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 22:43

0

Great read. Interesting topic and I love "bringing a car back". One small correction "You just hard to look hard at it,", I assume "had to" and not "hard to".

There is an auto-row here that has a used car dealer or three every block for about 10 miles. Its really crazy. I take this route just for the scenery. I often wonder about how certain cars ended up there, its like the foster care system. Often not the cars fault but they get shuffled from one dealer to the next transiting the auction circuit in the middle. I turn over in my head just what that poor BMW 645i did to deserve a spot among the point A/B detritus. Or just who buys a Volvo V40 for $4500.00 from a guy whose office is essentially a tent. These are the velvet paintings of cars I guess.

So just how did you get into the self financing part of the business? Seems like there would be a pretty big demand for this these days. Do you find that as cars age the newer cars are still viable for appliance duty or do the more complicated modern electronics shorten their shelf life?

JamesBob-TX > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 22:45

1

I owned a BHPH lot for 7 years and finally got out of it earlier this year because I didn't have the stomach for repos anymore. What my senses where exposed to I could handle, what my soul was exposed to put me out of business. A guy whose wife died and he couldn't afford the payments but had no other way to get around for him and his daughter, a guy whose special needs kid kept him from keeping employment, families choosing between car payments and food and the last straw a family of 3 living in their car. We let the business go bust on the debt of the repos, I just couldn't do it anymore.

Delta88 > S11Steve 01/03/2015 at 23:06

0

"not knowing if the coffin was occupied or not. I poked it with a stick to try to judge the weight, but it didn't move at all." I laughed my ass off, because I'd probably try the same thing (:

Delta88 > MrDakka 01/03/2015 at 23:16

0

Lol... They could also use that clear plastic (garbage bag?) if they want to make it look a little more "classy".

Edz > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 23:24

0

Many moons ago, my brother and I had ourselves a handsome '99 Grand Caravan Sport, in factory Candy Apple Red. First vehicle I ever had to my name. We loved that van and it loved us back. It ran strong, got pretty good mileage (16~20MPG running on the 3.8), was great comfort to take on many miles of road (with nary a sniffle), and could seat BOTH our families on short trips! :]

Its only weaknesses were rust that tended to grow in the rear wheel arches like a cancer, and squeaky suspension bits that had to be fixed once in a while - all thanks to the salty winter roads of Ohio ;)

Oh, and the carbon fiber hood? Long story... :P

EdWunclerJr > Steven Lang 01/03/2015 at 23:57

0

Last week I started counting how many of these I see running around Minnesota and North Dakota, I stopped counting at 45 in 15 minutes. That was just in Fargo.

EdWunclerJr > Steven Lang 01/04/2015 at 00:10

1

I repoed around Houston for a couple of years, fun job. Crazy at times though. Worst repo I ever did was a box truck that hauled waste from the hospital to the incinerator, body parts bio waste ect. Snagged it on a Friday afternoon in July, they didn't pick it up until Monday afternoon. The stench was so bad. They were 5 months behind on the payments so I had to grab it.

talltrees > Devon lost his burner, understands electric cars don't require front grilles 01/04/2015 at 00:15

0

"We're a Mopar family"

shop-teacher > Tohru 01/04/2015 at 00:17

1

Wow, some people are such assholes!

Great story, though.

Dusty Ventures > Zoom 01/04/2015 at 01:13

0

iCloud finally decided to give me access to my photos. Here's my souvenir from the transmission frag grenade.

TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts > Delta88 01/04/2015 at 01:13

0

Its great stuff. Not to great at fixing broken brake lines though. This particular line is in a nasty spot and had a weird fitting where it goes into the ABS controller. I'd rather have a professional handle that.

signinsrlame > Steven Lang 01/04/2015 at 02:25

0

ummm I would 100% have bid on Kevorkian's Westy, it wasn't worth what it was listing at though

Froggmann > Tohru 01/04/2015 at 03:46

0

So that's how you kill those damned things..

dorkspeed > Steven Lang 01/04/2015 at 08:56

0

2003 Chevy Tahoe. Picked it up for $3300 from the previous owner. It had a mountain of cigarette butts erupting from the ashtray like Mount St. Helens, and a smell that was absolutely ferrel. It needed a few odds and ends, which amounted to maybe $200 worth of parts, but mainly I spent the better part of TWO WEEKENDS cleaning the interior! Sould it a month later for $7000.... and probably could have gotten $8000 if I had waited longer.